Stealing images from Fanart to put up on 'AAX'

[Silverfox]

Here we go again....

I originally went with the subject header, 'Takes from the rich and does NOT give to the poor', to lighten the mood up a bit, but changed my mind at the last second since the present situation is quite serious. At least the way I am looking at things.

A week or two ago I was comparing several Aerosmith images I have on hand with those here on Fanart as well as Album Art Exchange. (Lately I've been re-editing my 'Aerosmith' MP3 folders on two external hard drives in addition to prepping 3600x3600px images of several Aerosmith vinyl LP's to eventually put up here on Fanart.) I noticed that the few Aerosmith covers I put up here and those from other contributors were exactly the same as those on AAX. I probably didn't have to because it was more or less obvious, but I downloaded those very images from here and 'AAX' to get a really good look. Indeed, they were exactly the same! I went one step further and glanced in a hurried fashion many of the images that particular contributor, 'Domenow', had up on AAX. Very interesting that they are all 1000px and none are 600px default images as per the requirement on AAX, but I'm digressing at this point. Anyway, I wanted to put it off until a future date so I can investigate much further (re: download covers and make side by side comparisons) but decided to finally make a stink now once and for all. Let's just say that short of proving things beyond a shadow of doubt, I'm now convinced that my initial suspicion of a certain individual (((cough))) we all know and love (((cough))) is behind this latest nonsense. I'm referring to none other than 'ezz9'!

I'll put way to the side a detailed blow by blow account AND rattling off a number of cover images (i.e., artist/band name and album title) as to how my original gut reaction from awhile back has been confirmed. But I will say this much. I noticed earlier while once again checking out one or two Aerosmith covers on AAX that many of the images 'Domenow' (wow, ain't THAT an original name!) has over there match exactly -- give or take a slight difference in color balance or brightness/contrast -- with those over here on Fanart. I didn't notice it awhile back but the dead giveaway this time around was the Deicide cover, 'When Satan Lives', and 'We Came To Kill' by Leather Angel. Two covers I knew like the back of my hand that 'ezz9' had put up towards the tail-end of last year here on Fanart. I made a little stink about the former cover in that now infamous thread that we all thought was behind us -- until this latest nonsense. I said I wouldn't rattle off a bunch of album covers and stick to my word, but I'll say the following. I find it amusing if not downright sad and pathetic that he took numerous Blondie single covers a year ago from AAX, put them up here, and now by some weird twist of logic and plain common sense decided to put them up again over there!!! I'm not even going to further elaborate on the latter other than merely bringing it up very briefly.

This is for the powers that be here on Fanart. I can't speak for none of you, but if it were up to me I'd kick that bloody jack-ass off of Fanart once and for all AND tell to him to stick his 4000+ images straight up his ass! At a minimum give him a week to download all those images in case he doesn't have most or all of them backed-up, and do what the hell he wants with them. It's no secret that contributors here on Fanart and over on AAX "borrow" images from one another. But this dude goes up and beyond mere "borrowing" of a few images, and takes a good chunk of the cargo while probably thinking to himself that no one will notice. He did it over here and now he's doing so in reverse. I don't know about any other contributor on Fanart, but I refuse to have my own images put up over there. One, two, or five? I reckon it's no big deal. A bunch of them and by 'ezz9???' Get the you-know-what out of here!!!!!!! Threat or no threat if I keep seeing that horse crap again and again with my images within the coming weeks and months, I plan on giving him a little visit over in Arizona if in case I wind up going there this year while visiting a very dear and old friend of mine. Unless one of you senior mods. or admins. want to do so, I plan on getting a hold of either Scott or someone else on AAX and informing them of this matter. I highly doubt anyone over there wants to see images pilfered left, right, and center and placed up on that site.

[Artwork Lover]

Listen, I don't have a Horse in this race but I must disclose that I am a long-time (8 years or so) contributor to AAX.

Isn't this a bit like the Pot calling the Kettle "black"?

I mean, AT LEAST 15k-20k of the images here were pilfered DIRECTLY from AAX (their figures and looking around here, I certainly believe it). It was this site's way of Boot-strapping the Album Art section here to a decent level of image count. I know that several hundred of my own images, purchased exclusively to scan, edit and contribute (IOW, not available anywhere else) there were taken by Ezzz9, EDJgraphix, Lovegun, JasonJP, AndyM, Wishbonefan and a whole host of others. I know from conversations with the Admin and Mods over there that the timing and structure of these raids mean that (logically) they HAD to have been organized, coordinated and directed - it wasn't just random users. You can clearly see here where one user would grab half of an artist's discography and then, another user comes along and gets the other half of them. I know from these conversations that repeated attempts were made to block the users listed above and that automated scripts from England were shutting down their server (in an attempt to download the entire site) had forced them to block the UK just to remain operational. Keep in mind that this is all also in light of that site's TOU which clearly asks that their not be uploaded anywhere else.

Now, **ONE** user (coincidentally, the one who transferred the largest number of images from that site to this one) has uploaded an entire 700 images (and from what I understand, several more which were deleted which had ORIGINATED on AAX and had been uploaded back there again) and you're ready to go to AZ and go kick some butt? Seriously?? Wow...

When looking at my own images here and knowing first hand the time and effort AAX took to make their own site viable, I had often wondered how the admin here would feel if someone came and took 15-20,000 images, including thousands of original images not available anywhere else, from Fanart and uploaded it elsewhere, en masse. Were I you guys, I'd consider myself lucky that the Admin over there doesn't come in and take EVERYTHING from you as (a certainly justifiable) retribution. I certainly wouldn't show the restraint that the owner of that site has, I know that for sure. I don't personally hold anything against you guys but your hubris, outright hypocrisy and your unjustified anger was just too funny to pass by and not comment upon. Apparently, the chickens are coming home to roost and you don't like the taste of your own medicine any more. If you live by and make your name by theft, doesn't karma dictate that someone will come and steal from you? "Live by the sword..." and all of that, you know.

Just my two cents...

[Artwork Lover]

Fanart allows Google full access to the album artwork. By allowing this, they demonstrate no reasonable expectation or desire for the containment of their content. Unlike AAE, they post nothing expressing a desire to not allow it onto other Album Art sites. I am assuming that you are not a moderator and therefore, you are not expressing the official position of this site? If not, It must be a personal opinion about your own submissions? If so, why would you share it on a site that will allow bots to index and link to it on Google?

[ZincRider]

I pulled all my scans from AlbumArtExchange because of their Admin's double standards and general attitude. Apparently it's 'only fair' to collect artwork for AAX from Fanart, but it's a big issue when fanart users do the same for this site.

I still think it's bad style to raid other album art sites for their unique content (and they do have a lot of unique stuff as many of their users make their own scans and the quality is rather good) instead of making quality scans yourself, but I couldn't care less about AAX these days..

[Artwork Lover]

I pulled all my scans from AlbumArtExchange because of their Admin's double standards and general attitude. Apparently it's 'only fair' to collect artwork for AAX from Fanart, but it's a big issue when fanart users do the same for this site.

I still think it's bad style to raid other album art sites for their unique content (and they do have a lot of unique stuff as many of their users make their own scans and the quality is rather good) instead of making quality scans yourself, but I couldn't care less about AAX these days..

Prior to Fanart.tv's large-scale raiding of AAX, taking artwork from Fanart or other album cover art sites was prohibited. Not only that, there aren't any that really have the quality. ACDC is pure rubbish with what are for all intents and purposes raw scans. FreeCDcovers.net? CDcovers.cc? Coveralia? None of that content meets AAX standards.

NOBODY at AAX is raiding Fanart for content. Not to put down this site but but as a contributor there, I can say that there isn't much here that is desirable which is not also available through other sources (either on or through Google) in not only a higher resolution but in it's original and "un-enhanced" state as well. On top of that, every single image here on Fanart is available on Google so obviously, Fanart doesn't care whereas AAX with its original artwork has a very specific policy about it.

If someone rips you off, isn't it "only fair" to steal back from them? After all, I remind you that Fanart struck the first blow and dictated their own rules by which they wanted to play by in this arena - If AAX plays by those very same rules it is suddenly "not fair"? Should they just "turn the other cheek"? While just, it is a moot point because it simply is not happening. The person you're referring to has uploaded about a thousand covers of which about 360 something were almost immediately deleted by Moderators there. Alt least half of their remaining content duplicates content already there since it is the person transferred the largest number of images from AAX to this site and the content is still on their drive.

Say you live in a nice neighborhood and own 5 large dogs. You walk those dogs twice a day and despite that neighbor's "No Trespassing" and "please clean up after your pet" signs, they are allowed to hop over your neighbor's 1 foot high garden border fence, lift their leg and pee on their mailbox and topiary and then, take a huge dump on their well manicured lawn which you then proceed to leave for your neighbor to clean up. A couple of years later, that neighbor's indoor cat gets out of the house and sprays the tire of your car (which is parked on the street) and you're going to make a fuss about it? Is that what you mean by a "double-standard"?

Double-standard implies that AAX are presently or have been raiding this site. There is absolutely no evidence of this at all! If I am missing something other than ezzz9, please let me know. I like to have my facts straight. I see every single cover that comes in as I am on that site daily and I simply see nothing at all to suggest this. Not seeing any evidence makes your claim of a double standard sound more like some sort of guilty conscious to me, just like the liar thinks that everyone else is lying to them or a con man who thinks everyone is trying to run a scam on him. I'm not suggesting that you personally have done this but an attitude of the site.

[Kode]

"Prior to Fanart.tv's large-scale raiding of AAX" As far as I know there has never been any "organized, coordinated and directed" efforts to take images from AAX, I know AAX think there has been and has taken it personally. AAX has probably been listed as a place to check for good quality images, and you are right, we don't really care if images come from AAX as long as they are high quality.

In addition I'll state for the record now, if people are taking images and putting them up on AAX, so what? A bit of attribution would be nice sure, but at the end of the day, if you don't want your images shared, keep them on your hard drive and don't upload them any where.

I'd love to have a decent relationship with AAX and maybe collaborate on some things, as the purposes of the 2 sites are very different, but the admin, despite us never talking seems to have taken a dislike to the site and maybe even me personally, which I have probably exacerbated with the article with a clickbait title.

*Edit

"It was this site's way of Boot-strapping the Album Art section here to a decent level of image count." Absolute bullshit, the site has never had a policy of bootstrapping a section, we may be complacent about it happening, but it was not and is not a site policy.

[Kode]

"I know from these conversations that repeated attempts were made to block the users listed above and that automated scripts from England were shutting down their server (in an attempt to download the entire site) had forced them to block the UK just to remain operational", I'm dubious about those claims and they were certainly nothing to do with the site, even if someone was trying to download the entire site it shouldn't have knocked the site offline, we have to handle over 500 million requests every single day, we need several servers to handle that load but something crawling a site shouldn't cause any technical problems.

[Artwork Lover]

"Prior to Fanart.tv's large-scale raiding of AAX" As far as I know there has never been any "organized, coordinated and directed" efforts to take images from AAX, I know AAX think there has been and has taken it personally. AAX has probably been listed as a place to check for good quality images, and you are right, we don't really care if images come from AAX as long as they are high quality.

***I do not speak for AAE. I am a member, a past moderator and and contributor. I also know the admin quite well as well as several other members there. While this situation has of course been discussed in great depth there, I am not here as a mouthpiece. I speak only for myself however my thinking does coincide with theirs at several points.

With sincere respect, I would like to ask you if you have ever worked on images. I mean have you either scanned and edited them or repaired "Found" images off of Google, Amazon or somewhere like Universal or Island records? I ask because I haven't yet seen any contri's in the music section and I also wonder if maybe you are assuming that you can just resize these and pop them up onto the website and that both sites have essentially the same images from any given source,
I have done both scanning and repairing and often (usually), the free-range images are even more work. I have spent well over an hour on hundreds of these and up to 5 or 6 on many many more. It doesn't seem right to me to just bypass all of that work yourself and take it from a community where I decided to share it. As I am sure you are quite aware, it also takes visitor traffic away from where it rightfully belongs. The sentiment expressed by others in this thread also points out how we feel about our work being unwillingly shared. Your opinion about sharing content to other sites doesn't have to be the same as theirs is, right? I'm kind of old so think in antiquated terms like honor, respect and stuff. I wouldn't think of grabbing images from your site and put them up over there. It seems silly to have a mirror site of one another.

I know you're here, if I had wanted to, I would have uploaded it to fanart myself. No offense, I've just been a member there from the beginning and want to fill out that collection. It is where my stuff has gone for long before your site was here.

Yeah, 'it's in the internet' BUT that corner of it also has a little tiny fence around it. A border that says "hey, welcome but understand that this archive is being shared with you with a specific proviso". It welcomes personal use but asks that you not upload it anywhere else. The images aren't free=range and are not available on search engines. Nowhere except through that site. If that weren't clear enough, many attempts were made to curtail these people's activities.

I'd love to have a decent relationship with AAX and maybe collaborate on some things, as the purposes of the 2 sites are very different, but the admin, despite us never talking seems to have taken a dislike to the site and maybe even me personally, which I have probably exacerbated with the article with a clickbait title.

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Well above my pay grade but you never know. I know admin there to be pretty open. All of us there wan't to ensure that the site survives and thrives. IMHO, all of this does nothing towards that objective and only saps energy.

"It was this site's way of Boot-strapping the Album Art section here to a decent level of image count." Absolute bullshit, the site has never had a policy of bootstrapping a section, we may be complacent about it happening, but it was not and is not a site policy.

Perhaps out of the loop but there is much to substantiate what I said - I was a mod there at the time and have seen what points to the statement quoted at the beginning of this reply. I don't think a public forum is the place for me to go further than that and it isn't my right to go into detail.

[Artwork Lover]

"I know from these conversations that repeated attempts were made to block the users listed above and that automated scripts from England were shutting down their server (in an attempt to download the entire site) had forced them to block the UK just to remain operational", I'm dubious about those claims and they were certainly nothing to do with the site, even if someone was trying to download the entire site it shouldn't have knocked the site offline, we have to handle over 500 million requests every single day, we need several servers to handle that load but something crawling a site shouldn't cause any technical problems.

The software there was old and had feature upon feature piled on. It started off on running on the original owner's home computer and from there it migrated to first a VPS and then it's present home. It would not properly shut down SQL sessions and had a humongous server load as it was. Scripts originating in two cities were cycling through IP addresses and each city had what appeared to be at least a dozen threads. The new site can handle that without blinking but what was running back then couldn't. At least once a month it would choke and have to get restarted even without that other activity.

[Kode]

My point wasn't about people taking from AAX without consent, but more the people who uploaded to AAX also uploading here, regardless though, there is no way for us to police it. The point of this site is to have the best quality images possible.

I don't personally contribute many images, certainly not album covers, but I know people like ZincRider put a lot of effort and time in to doing it, and as he said, the attitude seems to be it's fine to take images from fanart.tv and put them on AAX but not the other way round, and maybe that's why people like Silverfox get upset.