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It's deja vu all over again -- a mini-me verson of 'ezz9.'

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:00 am
by Silverfox
I will try my best to make this post as painless as possible *AND* cut to the quick without going off on one too many tangential issues. The latter is at times necessary in order to buttress a point or two being made. Ready ... steady ... GO!

I should probably engage in a little more detective work so that I have a rock-solid case to go on and beyond a shadow of a doubt. But it's time I opened up my mouth and let the chips fall where they may. I also want to state that I'm not exactly losing any sleep over this or my conscience nagging the daylights out of me over taking to task yet another person (i.e., moderator) here on Fanart. I can easily look the other way but I decided not to because even though I don't have too much of a stake in matters, I care enough about this site to call out bullshit when I see it. The most egregious being a few years ago with 'ezz9' and a number of us sharing our stories about how he was screwing the pooch, so to speak, right from the outset when he became a moderator. We all know how that state of affairs ended.

I have started to see a few strange things as of late with one of the moderators here (he goes by the name of "luch33to"). His crime? Mind you he has not exactly committed a felony let alone fleecing loads of images from Album Art Exchange and putting them up here (not that I'm aware of despite that being a very small possibility). He basically reports images almost ad nauseum and putting up his own images. Rinse; lather; repeat. Quite a number of them are nothing to write home about, and I even wonder how some were accepted to begin with. A number of those images would get denied by him if they were put up by someone else. I would stake my very existence on that any day of the week! I reckon examples are legion, but two images that come to mind are his recent submissions of the "The Number Of The Beast" CD-single and "Killers" album by IRON MAIDEN. I don't know how the hell that individual even thought of putting up the latter image in the first place since it was so-so to godawful and nowhere near the high standards for image quality on this site. That is the sort of thing a newbie would do if they were trying out their hand for the first time in putting up images. I will assume he took it down after hitting him up with a private message pointing out to him what was wrong with it. In the event that it was denied by a moderator, I gather one way to find out is to go to the 'DENIED' sub-section underneath the 'MUSIC FANART' section within the PENDING area. If it's there one can take a look at it and see for themselves. I would do so myself and put up the link here, but on my end it takes almost forever for things to load. I have enough trouble as it is with the 'Wi-Fi' cutting out at irregular intervals.

On the heels of the above is him putting up images that are not "Replacement Images" but merely to go alongside others presently here on the Fanart database OR to actually replace the other image upon the discretion of a moderator. I don't want to assume too much but I gather he does the latter quite a bit. One example will suffice. He tried doing it with the "Sonic Highways" album by FOO FIGHTERS. It wasn't a "Replacement Image" per se and merely to go either alongside the present one or perhaps to replace the one already here. I'm banking on the latter option seeing the few comments that he left alongside the image in the PENDING section last week. Was his submission of that image better and/or dazzling to the point of having one's eyeballs come out of their sockets? Not in the slightest! They were virtually identical but with a TEENY-WEENY difference in the lower left-hand side where the water is and perhaps, too, in color balance. All in all there was no difference and no improvement. My guess is that FOO FIGHTERS (and IRON MAIDEN, PINK FLOYD, et al.) are one of his favorite bands and he just has to be the kid on the block (figuratively speaking) in having up the most images from that band and others.

I readily understand that inner urge or drive to have images up from one's favorite bands. Without having to cite any but I can recall several images that I wanted to put up and someone beat me to the punch. If not at that moment in time one or several months prior to it. (It's not a good example because the situation and context was different but I'm thinking right now of the "Hardwired...To Self-Destruct" album by METALLICA. I had that image and several others roughly 2-4 months prior to the album's official release. My version of the one that is currently up by 'Growler' was denied by 'ezz9' over some inane horse crap regarding image quality. Luckily the others were accepted by one or two other moderators who I presume saw that they were the actual ones from the record labels. As I write this one can still verify things by downloading the image from iTunes via Ben Dodson's app. Then and now the image measures 4000px and 8.48 megabytes. I don't know about 'ezz9' or anyone else for that matter but it hardly gets any better than that.) When it happens one has to simply suck it up and move on. If one can't hold their tongue and needs to rant a bit, do what I did recently even though I wouldn't suggest doing so a bunch of times. I took to the "REPORT IMAGE" function and voiced my complaint about the "Joanne" front cover from Lady Gaga. With all due respect to McVicar who I have nothing but good things to say about (re: we have corresponded privately on occasion and God bless him for helping me out with a 1920x1080 image of The Mission U.K. that is here on Fanart) but he denied the image that is currently up by 'Splke6535.' The images are indeed different -- one is the CD and the other is the Digital Media version -- despite at first glance looking exactly the same. All in all, I didn't complain bitterly to McVicar despite telling him I would get back to him privately and merely sucked it up and moved on.

Lastly, and I readily admit the following is apples and oranges, until this matter gets rectified I'm holding off once again in putting up any further images. With the exception of one or two periods of activity I took a long break in 2017 and 2018, and sort of hoping to resume activity once again. Let's just say I have a TON of images waiting in the wings (e.g., JUDAS PRIEST, IRON MAIDEN, etc.) and just recently got back into the swing of things. Not for nothing but as I write this I have these gorgeous-looking images of the original vinyl LP's to "Killers" and "The Number Of The Beast" by IRON MAIDEN that need to be given the once-over before eventually making their way here to the Fanart database. That's assuming, of course, they get accepted and wholeheartedly believe they will since they are quite different from the one's already up here. Once again, until the powers that be rectify matters those images and yours truly are not budging an inch. Do I want to see this particular moderator get the boot? Hardly -- unless it's necessary. As I see it he just needs a friendly pep-talk to cease and desist, and maybe a little rap or two on the knuckles with a wooden ruler.

ADDENDUM: My apologies to anyone who felt my "novel" was unnecessary and I could have gone instead with a "Too Long; Didn't Read" version. Without reiterating what I said way at the outset, I will state nonetheless that I wanted to put all my eggs in one basket. I'm not exactly in a court room setting but I needed to settle the matter in as detailed a manner as possible.



Re: It's deja vu all over again -- a mini-me verson of 'ezz9

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:52 pm
by Silverfox
Here, too, I should probably engage in a little more detective work. It would be nice to do so but I wonder what further connection(s) I would need to tie together. The following is just a hunch and based more on gut instinct than hard, solid evidence. Even basing things on the latter is in short supply since there is some decent to good counter-evidence and some shortcomings to what I'm about to throw out.

If I didn't know any better I can swear that this "luch33to" individual is none other than 'ezz9' under a different guise! I would be the first in line to say it's far-fetched; however, it is not above him to do such a thing. We already saw that a few years ago when he was going under the name of "domenow" over on AAX. (Speaking of which I need to go over to that site and see if he's been putting up images under that name.) If in the event it is him -- and I readily admit it most probably is not -- it just goes to show that certain individuals and human nature in general know no bounds.

Re: It's deja vu all over again -- a mini-me verson of 'ezz9

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:59 am
by Silverfox
After spending quite a few hours going back and forth between this website and Album Art Exchange while looking at hundreds and hundreds of images, I made a few more "connections" on top of what I had to go on several days ago. Even though it's still not beyond a shadow of a doubt, nonetheless, I am now convinced this "luch33to" character is none other than -- wait for it -- DRUM ROLL -- 'ezz9!'

For the time being I will spare everyone a point by point breakdown as to what led me to that conclusion. But I do have a certain test I want to pass by this <air quotes> "Luchengue" chap. I noticed right off the bat last week that he is sporting the Argentinian flag as an avatar. I am not Argentinian but I am Hispanic (not exactly an ethnic marker in the technical sense but I digress) and know a thing or two or more than the average person about spanish-speaking countries in the Caribbean, Mexico, and Central & South America. On top of that I happen to know spanish even though my English is far superior. For the time being I will not divulge what my real name is or ethnicity other than to say I am a U.S. citizen of many decades. In short, an American and as Yankee Doodle Dandy as they come. That is, I look like a run-of-the-mill "white boy" and hardly anyone thinks twice of my country of origin until I start to speak in my native tongue and give my name (one of the most common spanish names in the world and of Spaniard origin). For what it's worth I will be more than happy to give either Lee Penney or one or two of the other admins. my full name and cite two or three social media platforms so they can verify I'm telling the truth in regards to my identity despite not divulging too many details here.

What I want to know from 'ezz9' -- oops, I mean 'luch33to' -- is his proficiency or lack thereof of the spanish language. I realize a person who is of Hispanic origin does not automatically mean they will know the native tongue of one or both of their parents. I have a few nieces and nephews who don't know a word of spanish despite one or both parents being Hispanic. Having said that and in light of one or two other hurdles that I won't go into, I'm quite sure the following test will at a minimum show that this "Luchengue" individual (a.k.a. Luch33to) is not who he says he is.

Before I get to my "Rorshach test" I want to take a moment and say the following. If indeed I'm wrong and this individual is not only of Argentinian descent but also NOT 'ezz9' by any wild stretch of the imagination, I give him permission to rub my face through the mud *AND* rake me through the damn coals here publicly! It's the least he can do to someone who has been brazen enough to call him out here for all eyes to see.

Hey 'ezz9' -- oops, I mean 'luch33to' -- bad habits are hard to die(!) -- you mind translating the following biblical passages into spanish? If it's too difficult a task just pick one (speaking for myself I'd go with the third one). O.T./N.T. texts taken from the New International Version" translation. More on that towards the end.

Gen. 1:26-31

26 Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” 27 So God created human beings in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. 28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.” 29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day."

1 Kings 18:16-40

16 So Obadiah went to meet Ahab and told him, and Ahab went to meet Elijah. 17 When he saw Elijah, he said to him, “Is that you, you troubler of Israel?” 18 “I have not made trouble for Israel,” Elijah replied. “But you and your father’s family have. You have abandoned the Lord’s commands and have followed the Baals. 19 Now summon the people from all over Israel to meet me on Mount Carmel. And bring the four hundred and fifty prophets of Baal and the four hundred prophets of Asherah, who eat at Jezebel’s table.” 20 So Ahab sent word throughout all Israel and assembled the prophets on Mount Carmel. 21 Elijah went before the people and said, “How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him.” But the people said nothing. 22 Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the Lord’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let Baal’s prophets choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord. The god who answers by fire—he is God.” Then all the people said, “What you say is good.” 25 Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose one of the bulls and prepare it first, since there are so many of you. Call on the name of your god, but do not light the fire.” 26 So they took the bull given them and prepared it. Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. “Baal, answer us!” they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made. 27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” 28 So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. 29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention. 30 Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come here to me.” They came to him, and he repaired the altar of the Lord, which had been torn down. 31 Elijah took twelve stones, one for each of the tribes descended from Jacob, to whom the word of the Lord had come, saying, “Your name shall be Israel.” 32 With the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord, and he dug a trench around it large enough to hold two seahs of seed. 33 He arranged the wood, cut the bull into pieces and laid it on the wood. Then he said to them, “Fill four large jars with water and pour it on the offering and on the wood.” 34 “Do it again,” he said, and they did it again. “Do it a third time,” he ordered, and they did it the third time. 35 The water ran down around the altar and even filled the trench. 36 At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: “Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. 37 Answer me, Lord, answer me, so these people will know that you, Lord, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again.” 38 Then the fire of the Lord fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench. 39When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, “The Lord—he is God! The Lord—he is God!” 40 Then Elijah commanded them, “Seize the prophets of Baal. Don’t let anyone get away!” They seized them, and Elijah had them brought down to the Kishon Valley and slaughtered there.

Matt. 1:1-17

1 This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham: 2 Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers, 3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar, Perez the father of Hezron. Hezron the father of Ram, 4 Ram the father of Amminadab, Amminadab the father of Nahshon, Nahshon the father of Salmon, 5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab, Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth, Obed the father of Jesse, 6 and Jesse the father of King David. David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife, 7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam, Rehoboam the father of Abijah, Abijah the father of Asa, 8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram, Jehoram the father of Uzziah, 9 Uzziah the father of Jotham, Jotham the father of Ahaz, Ahaz the father of Hezekiah, 10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh, Manasseh the father of Amon, Amon the father of Josiah, 11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiah and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon. 12 After the exile to Babylon: Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel, Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel, 13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud, Abihud the father of Eliakim, Eliakim the father of Azor, 14 Azor the father of Zadok, Zadok the father of Akim, Akim the father of Elihud, 15 Elihud the father of Eleazar, Eleazar the father of Matthan, Matthan the father of Jacob, 16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah. 17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Messiah.

Here's a bit of background for you and others to consider. If you are Argentinian *AND* very conversant in spanish, translating one or all of those scriptural passages will be a cinch. Granted, you might have a certain difficulty if like me your English is much better and/or far superior to Spanish. All the same I just want to see if you will not only pass my little test with flying colors but perhaps not try to wiggle your way around things by running any of those biblical passages through an online translator OR consult any number of spanish translations of the Bible. Speaking of which, I own -- wait for it -- 21 translations of the Bible. Two of them are in Spanish. (I'm a Bible geek and have a TON of scholarly material, i.e., not hundreds but thousands upon thousands on the O.T., N.T., Pseudepigrapha, Second Temple Jewish literature, etc., etc., in my personal library here at home and mostly on my external hard drives.) So don't try to pull any fast one over me because I will be able to smell it from here to Megiddo.

Last but definitely not least. If push comes to shove I will get a hold of Scott myself despite not wanting to bother my little head (re: I have a "dummy" account over on AAX and only use it on occasion) but was wondering if someone knows that administrator if you can be so kind to reach out to him. Why? Beside reading my reply to his private message he sent me in late 2017 which I was not aware of until yesterday *and* possibly my public response to one or several of his posts to the thread I started in 2017 where I exposed 'ezz9', I feel he will want to know that what's-his-face is quite possibly going under another name over there in addition to the old "domenow" moniker. For those of you who want to check things out, there's an individual over on AAX named 'mgl' and I believe it is none other than you know who. Oh yeah, speaking of 'ezz9' -- damn it, I mean 'luch33to' -- I am giving you exactly 24 hours to translate one or all of those scriptural passages. If you do not that is one thing. But you better be prepared to give an account of who the hell you are not to mention your odd behavior here on Fanart that is VERY reminiscent of 'ezz9.'



Re: It's deja vu all over again -- a mini-me verson of 'ezz9

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:14 pm
by Silverfox
Erin or Bob or Luciano or whatever the hell name you care to go under,

<looks at watch> Mira la hora compadre! ¡El reloj está corriendo! Tienes menos de 12 horas para completar mi pequeña prueba. Imagínate lo que yo y los otros en este foro vamos a pensar de ti so no te presentas. Que no eres quien dices que eres y no meno que 'ezz9!'

So hop to it jack-ass! Once again you have my permission to rake me through the coals here publicly if I'm way off by a mile!!!

Re: It's deja vu all over again -- a mini-me verson of 'ezz9

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:05 am
by Silverfox

Time's up jack-ass! You not only failed my "spanish test" but you didn't even try to defend yourself here like most folks!!! For example, turning the tables on me and saying I was a crazy son-of-a-bitch who's got a few screws loose in the head. More to the point is letting everyone know in no uncertain terms you are "Luciano" and of Argentinian descent. You couldn't even manage that! So what did you do?

Besides doing nothing whatsoever to defend your name, identity, and honor you -- get a load of this one everyone -- hit me up with a Friend request!!! Sure, why not! Ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome, Bob? (FYI: That's ezz9's real name judging from old correspondence between me and him in early 2016.) What on God's green Earth were you thinking? Who in their friggin' right mind would hit up with a Friend request here on Fanart someone who just accused them of not being who they say are and practically raking them through the coals in the process??? <slaps face> Oh yeah, silly me. Some character from New Mexico named ezz9 (a.k.a. Bob)! I have more to say tomorrow. It's a toss-up but it will mainly be geared towards the administrators of this site who also have quite a bit of explaining to do.

Lastly, and kind of neither here nor there, I already got a hold of Scott over on AAX. I leave it up to him but I can only hope he will be getting to the bottom of things if indeed that's you under the name "mgl" over there. First it was "domenow" and now that one. Wow, such originality on your part that I'm practically beside myself here!

Re: It's deja vu all over again -- a mini-me verson of 'ezz9

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:09 pm
by Kode
Hi Silverfox, that's quite the wall of text to be greeted with :)
I'm probably not the person you need to speak to about this, I've never even spoken to luch33to and I rarely visit this forum. I am, however, always in the discord server if anyone needs me.
With all that said, there is no user on the forum called luch33to which means he's never posted on here or even logged in on the forum and maybe hasn't seen your post?

*edit* Just to clarify, when I say forum I mean specifically not the main site itself.

He's also been registered on the site for 3 years, so I'm not saying you are wrong, just not sure how likely it is.

Re: It's deja vu all over again -- a mini-me verson of 'ezz9

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:24 pm
by Silverfox

>Hi Silverfox, that's quite the wall of text to be greeted with :)

I have a certain reputation to keep up! ;-) Seriously speaking, if this were anyone else I would have gone with the "TL;DR" version. One can say I wanted to bludgeon 'ezz9' (a.k.a. Bob) if in case it was him. He always LOVED my "novels" and thought I would oblige. :D

>"...and maybe hasn't seen your post?"

I made sure he did by sending him the link to this thread via PM. What are old friends for? 8-)

>He's also been registered on the site for 3 years, so I'm not saying you are wrong, just not sure how likely it is."

Without reiterating a few things I spelled out in two previous "novels" -- excuse me, I meant to say posts -- it's worth stating that I would LOVE to be proven wrong! In other words, there's a very good possibility it's not him and I recognized that from the get-go. On the other hand, and without bringing in other folks who saw the "connections" too and perhaps way before I did, I am one of those characters who has little to no problem calling a spade a spade. In short, I think it's him -- but -- if it isn't he can be my guest and prove me wrong. Heck, if someone else wants to "pinch-hit" for him by all means go for it. All in all, will the real "Luchengue" please stand up.

Lastly, and harking back to my very first post and why I started things to begin with, my ultimate aim is have to you guys (i.e., administrators) look into this particular moderator's -- how shall I put it(?) -- odd behavior. It struck me as a couple of pages being ripped from "ezz9's" playbook. It was not above him to go under a different name over on Album Art Exchange, and it sure as heck is not above him to do the same here.



Re: It's deja vu all over again -- a mini-me verson of 'ezz9

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:30 am
by luch33to
Hi Silverfox
Sorry for taking too long to see this and respond.
and sorry for (I don't know why or how) I messed with you.

PS: Lo único que me molesta es que me hayas pedido de traducir algo extraído de un libro de fantasía. Pero bueno, cada uno elige y es libre si maneja su vida según lo que te dice un libro.

Cheers and see ya

Re: It's deja vu all over again -- a mini-me verson of 'ezz9

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:11 pm
by Silverfox

^^^^^Sorry mate, but bad habits are hard to die with me. <whistles> <------ Anyone know of an emoji for "whistling?"

>Sorry for taking too long to see this and respond. and sorry for (I don't know why or how) I messed with you.

It's not so much a case of you "messing" with me and simply one of ripping one too many pages from your own playbook -- oops, I'm sorry I meant to say <air quotes> "Luchengue" -- and playing fast and loose with your moderator duties. I don't expect any monetary compensation, gold medals, or even pats on the back for a job well done (a simple 'Thank You' does the trick) but the administrators of this site should be privy to these sort of abuses. If that means blowing the whistle than so be it. Not for nothing, and at the expense of putting him on a pedestal, but I gather that Scott over on AAX would be on top of this sort of thing akin to a brand new Snapper mower on a fresh lawn. If not people operating under fake names and accounts he's quick to the draw when it comes to folks fleecing images (or solo or group efforts in periodic raids like in days past) from over there to here. That sort of thing gets under my skin too as evident in my old thread towards you <needle skates across record> silly me, you will have to excuse my momentary lapse of reason but I meant to say that loathsome fella 'ezz9' who also goes under one or several different names on this site. Where was I? Oh yeah, that semi-infamous thread I started in early 2017 here in the Music section.

>PS: Lo único que me molesta es que me hayas pedido de traducir algo extraído de un libro de fantasía. Pero bueno, cada uno elige y es libre si maneja su vida según lo que te dice un libro.

The following is a TANGENT and simply coming out of the left field bleachers. In short, not important to the subject matter at hand. But you said something that caught my attention and cries out for a fulsome response. If you think the Bible is a "fantasy book" than be my guest and tell me all about it. Hit me up with a PM to your You Tube channel (assuming you have one) and I will give you a little visit over there. That's where I let out my inner Vlad Tepes and yell out "DEUS VULT" on occasion when I go up against Muslims, Neo-pagans, and others looking for a fight. I would have mentioned Facebook and Twitter but I don't care these days for the former (re: I'm going to delete my FB account this year and send it to oblivion) and I NEVER cared for Twitter. I can't say I saw it happening as if I had consulted a Tarot deck or spread out tea leaves on the floor to divine the future, but I'm glad I never signed up on Twitter seeing all the censoring going on and a good deal of it from the utterly pathetic and reprehensible Jack Dorsey. Don't even get me started on Mark Zuckerberg!!!

Last but not least, it's worth reiterating *and* clarifying what I said in a previous post. At the expense of tooting my own horn, you will not be dealing with some Johnny-Come-Lately. :ugeek: I have a TON -- and I mean a friggin' TON(!) -- of scholarly material dealing with biblical and theological studies. So if you want to "teach" me a thing or two about the O.T. & N.T. (or ANE, DSS, Pseudepigripha, and Apocryphal texts) by all means be my guest and let's see what you got. You can bring up anyone you want (e.g., the Dutch Radical school, Biblical Minimalists, "New Atheists", etc., etc.) but you better make it worth my time. If you don't you are going to find out the hard way you barked up the wrong tree. ;)